In conversation with Roberta Edzerza

Transformative Educational Leadership Journal | ISSUE Fall 2025

Listen in on a conversation with Roberta Edzerza as she shares about Indigenous leadership, the impact of an appreciative lens in lifting up the leadership of others, and the educational work yet to be done in this province. She prefaces the conversation with a slide deck showcasing the powerful leadership she has learned from and the relationships that have shaped her life and her work. This contribution will call you to reflect on how these powerful themes resonate in your life and what you are doing about it.

By Roberta Edzerza

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Introductions

Roberta Ezerze

Ap’obm Noo di waayu
Maxłaaxaała di wil ‘waatgu
Kxeen di wil dzoogu
Gisbutwada di pdeegu
Gitwilgyoots di waabu

Ap’obm Noo means Protective Mother.
I am of Ts’msyen ancestry on my mother’s side, and Tahłtan on my father’s side. My crest is killer whale and I belong to the house of Gitwilgyoots.

It’s important to say your identity and where you are from. It’s also important to say who claims you because you have a responsibility. Your name and community have meaning and power.

Brooke Moore

My name is Brooke Moore. I come from the Irish on my mother’s side and from the British on my father’s side. I grew up on the lands of the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh (Squamish) and I now live and work on the lands of the sc̓əwaθən (Tsawwassen) and xʷməθkʷəy̓əm (Musqueam). As a settler on this land, I respect the teachings that we are all interconnected, and I accept that it is my responsibility to learn the truth of this land and how I came to be here, and also to work towards reconciliation. Given schooling was originally designed as a weapon against the children and communities of this land, this responsibility is especially important in my role in the education system.

In conversation with Roberta Edzerza

Brooke: What is buzzing in your context right now…?

Roberta: You know I was talking with Debbie Leighton Stephens recently, who worked as District Principal Indigenous Education for many years before me, and she was saying how it’s just amazing how things haven’t changed in terms of everybody needing to be on the same page with literacy, and embedding Indigenous pedagogy. The thing is, is that Indigenous pedagogy is still left out of the assessment practices in the literacy conversation. Indigenous dialect is not necessarily considered into assessment practices and strategies; we have to go beyond strategies and having diverse content in books, and pay more attention to the importance of dialect.

Brooke: Oh! This got deep real fast! Can you say more about that?

Roberta: Well, specifically for dialect in our area and, you know, being connected to other First Nations communities where the speech that has been evolving since contact, there’s a different, unique, beautiful way of how First Nations people speak. If you’re really attuned to it, you can tell where people are from by way of sounds, tone, and common words/phrases, all derived from their first language. And so, when people are doing assessments, they need to know some specific common sounds… the phonemic part of speech. For example, sh does not sound like shhhh for some of our communities, and s sound can sound like shh in a lot of our communities. So when we’re teaching our students components of literacy, we have to be considerate of the uniquely specific dialect.

Brooke: So systemically, we still do not allow for that, do we?

Roberta: No, no. There is more work to be done in that area. We have different dialects in different communities, and we have to allow for that in our assessment practices.

Brooke: What is the impact of not allowing for this?

Roberta: When we assess to see where students are at, some students of First Nations ancestry may have a specific dialect which will most likely be reflected in the data. The dialect that some students and families have is derived from our native tongue with all the beautiful sounds.

Brooke: So that’s false data, essentially.

Roberta: I guess if we are testing how to speak clearly in a colonized way, then sure. But I don’t know how important that is.

Along the same lines, we do a lot of this kind of thinking and purposeful reflection within our Indigenous Education department, especially the assessment part of Indigenous pedagogies. The curriculum has sprinkled in Indigenous curriculum, yes, and I understand that throughout BC Ministry of Education, it needs to be present in a vague general way so educators can make it their own. District-wide, we have to think about how Indigenous curriculum has to be embedded in a purposeful, meaningful way. If we don’t do that, we won’t know how to assess, and we won’t know that that’s the curriculum.  

I always use this as an example. There’s a fabulous teacher in our high school. When she is teaching about local animals, fish, and medicinal plants, they are learning about it on the land so they get to see, feel, smell, and talk about it. If there is a follow-up assignment to complete in classroom that they do to measure their knowledge, then they do that, and it’s amazing. But there still may be a few students that the teacher can better assess while they are out on the land learning. Side-by-side assessment practices with the student in an environment that makes sense to them is so important.

This is not the same as a field trip.

Brooke: Okay, so you are making a contrast between a full learning cycle happening in situ – in an authentic context “in the field / on the land” – and a field trip where students get a “get out of classroom free card” and go see something in action.

Roberta: Yes. For example, we do a lot of learning around our seasons and in March it’s eulachan season, ‘wah in our language. We call it our saviour fish and our team will be invited into classrooms to co-teach about the seasons; what time of year for certain activities and how to harvest and when. It’s important to teach about reciprocity – when we are out on the land, how do we give back and how do we make it better than we found it?– and all the First People’s Principles of Learning and being.

The question is how do we acknowledge that knowledge that so many of our First Nations students have? Many of our students have ‘lived experience’ with this learning and they don’t know that it is good, purposeful, meaningful expertise that has weight to it. Sometimes our assessment practices don’t allow for that. How do we highlight those students that are eulachan fishing every year with their family – how do we highlight and amplify that knowledge as hugely scientific, theoretical practices and lived practices? We are somewhat getting there, but I still feel that the tone is, “Let’s get back to the classroom and “do the real work” where we will write reports and essays.

Brooke: So if we say something is important in the field and the land, then we should be valuing it as such with how we assess. Is this the next edge for you? Is this the next place we need to go?

Roberta: I think that when we are collecting data to assess how our education system is doing, we need to make sure that the data is well balanced with appropriate assessment practices that measure what kids are coming to the table with – and what they are learning on the land and in the classroom. If we only bring kids to school and assess them by using typical content with a sprinkling in of Indigenous education, we are not weighing the Indigenous aspects the same therefore we are going to see the same results.

Brooke: Where is this conversation at in your district?

Roberta: It is happening more and more where educators are using that ‘authentic to their identity’ assessment practices in the classroom, and it shows that the students in their classrooms have lived experience and that they come to the table with quite a bit, and the teachers start with that and allow it to happen in different ways in terms of showing their learning. It also comes with trust, ongoing relationship building and own personal learning in this area. Teachers want to learn more about, so through collaboration and research, we learn together.

With myself, Lori Burger and two curriculum specialist teachers, Laura and Tina, we’re really starting to ask questions in terms of assessment practices. If we are going to teach about the life cycle of an eulachan, we can read about it and do a report on paper, write paragraphs or make a poster and then, if we have the privilege to go on the land, to look and feel and taste it. There are so many kids who know what’s going on while oolichan fishing, whether it is firsthand experience or generational practices from their families. I know there are lots of other opportunities where non-Indigenous students get to be highlighted in areas where many of our Indigenous students don’t have lived experience with it, which puts them kind of at the beginning of the learning. So how is that fair when we assess everybody the same in those situations, and then we don’t do that when First Nations students have that lived experience? Indigenous education is excellent academic learning – it is Indigenous pedagogy and it is high-level learning that we need to celebrate more often and regularly.

We are opening it up and asking questions… this is in discussion – it is something that is not new. I don’t have all the answers but I do know that there is work to be done. I think we all have to navigate through that together. As long as we have that lens on and we are asking ourselves, “Is this meaningful? Is this relevant? Who are we privileging here? Who are we amplifying in terms of that lived experience?”

Brooke: What does it require of us to move beyond sprinkling in Indigenous content and truly doing this work?

Roberta: I think this requires educators to understand and look at where they are at in their learning in terms of Indigenous pedagogy… not specifically to a particular Ts’msyen protocol or way of being… it’s not about that, like, we have pretty great non-Indigenous educators who understand and facilitate the space for learning, and they have questions themselves, but they do it appropriately and sensitively and they don’t need to be the expert and they don’t always need that First Nations role model or teacher in the classroom. They are also connecting with the Indigenous department and doing quite a bit of learning on their own, whether it’s authentic and relevant books, or online, or attending professional learning and community events that involve First Nations celebrations.

Brooke: Let’s say you have a whole school of teachers like that, what is that school like?

Roberta: I think you would see more circle discussion, table discussion with educators about further inquiry, more programs for students and families sharing their learning, strengthening relationships with the Indigenous education department and community. You’d see more First Nations students represented in all areas, in terms of leadership groups and extracurricular. You’d see more participation from students and families in school-wide events that are throughout the year. You’d see more purposeful visual representation inside and outside school. You’d hear more often about why it’s important that representation matters in schools – everything would have a purpose. Not just posters on the walls but using visuals purposefully, not tokenising those images and not using representation images in a deficit way such as poverty, social constructs, etc. Having Indigenous pedagogy and appropriate resources in all parts of the school – not just the language classrooms. So many times we have boxes of books sent back to our department, like when teachers are clearing out their classroom or an area in the school, they think they won’t need those books.

Brooke: What?! Like you mean like good books with Indigenous content or authors or…?

Roberta: Over the years we partnered with the language authority, developed books and our narrative stories. A lot of time and money went into those books, to have sets for all schools. These books include our adaawx. Adaawx means oral, narrative stories for Ts’msyen people. The sets of books talk about migration stories – how we came to be stories – how we trade stories – law – protocol – food – sovereignty – resource management – stewardship. There are so many things in those books and, yes often they come back to our building because there is a staff member that think they won’t need them or they don’t know how to use them or sometimes they say they’re old. And I’ll say yes – they’re thousands of years old!

Brooke: Does that hurt your heart to get those books sent back?

Roberta: Yes sometimes…

I know sometimes they get sent back because of lack of space or they may have too many already.

So we have a ways to go.

We still have work to do. We do have the support in our district for the Indigenous Education Department from all areas. So many people are wanting to learn more and experience more. It’s a beautiful time to be Indigenous. There are so many great Indigenous authors. The leaders before me have done a lot of breaking down barriers, and my mom was part of that group, but there are sometimes, often actually, where the more we learn about Indigenous education pedagogies and have more of a voice at the community, district level, and provincial level, – such as truth and reconciliation that there is still pockets of tokenism. Sometimes the more mandates from the ministry – the more things can become a checklist. Things get surfacy. Sometimes people see it as a burden. So yes, we do have a lot of support in this district and provincially, but it does feel like we are taking steps backwards at times. With all these mandates and everything that has happened around truth and reconciliation, it’s awesome – it is, but it has to be navigated in a respectful and meaningful way, not rushed… Hagwil Yaan – walk softly and sensitively.

Brooke: How do we make more space for leaders?

Roberta: It needs to be a different space. We can’t just fill the same roles with Indigenous people and expect it to be successful. That is setting people up for hardship and sometimes failure, not failure to the person, failure of the system. Because systemically, the preparation or the landing has to be changed a bit before we can have sustainable succession for Indigenous leaders in these roles.

Brooke: Okay, so you are saying that if we have the same role and simply replace a non-Indigenous person with an Indigenous person, that Indigenous person will be forced to do things in the same way because of how the role is shaped within a system which holds it in that shape?

Roberta: Yes, we can’t label a space Indigenous and throw an Indigenous person in there and think that good change is going to happen. It has to be planned strategically with Rights holders. This happens in all areas – not just in the education system. Our department works a lot with outside community agencies and large organizations. We do this work because it affects our community if we are not involved. So we work with a lot of organizations across industries; they typically have an Indigenous liaison or a non-Indigenous person whose role is to build relationships with First Nations. Sometimes when we meet and plan it’s a lot of teaching, and unteaching. We share knowledge and understanding to better their ways and learning about the true history of the territory where their industry is residing, and how to engage in recognizing the territory and teaching their staff. Sometimes they just want to name a building or a boat so they email a request. It’s never that easy as a translation, as there is so much learning of the sm’algyax language and protocols, especially naming vessels.

Brooke: And this is part of your role?

Roberta: It’s all connected. There are so many things that are interconnected to our families and to education because we are in early learning, K-12, post-secondary, and career pathways, we need to be involved. We are sending our kids out to these organizations and they need to be prepared, so it’s all connected.

There is a person in our community who works for one of the organizations as the Indigenous liaison. It’s hard being in these roles at times, especially when it doesn’t 100% align with stewardship and resources. One liaison leader is really impressive. She knows that specific requests and relationships take time. She asks appropriate questions with respect and sensitivity. She really is intentional with her learning. She knows of a few student leaders in post-secondary who are away in another city, majoring in Indigenous studies. She wants to meet with those students and let them know that this is an important and necessary field of work, and it’s going to get bigger and bigger and that her industry wants to work with youth, which is amazing.

This connects to another part of my role, being in Prince Rupert, which is at the end of the highway: recruitment… Recruitment doesn’t happen here like it happens anywhere else. We need to build our own here.  

And I guess that’s how I was raised, in terms of encouraging others – uplifting people in their roles where they are at to help them have leadership opportunities and to really encourage them to take those risks, just small risks, and to try to visualize where they think they can be.  

I don’t think non-Indigenous people who are working in education realize how much work that does entail. It’s not just about putting out a posting, it’s about providing professional learning opportunities, providing time and space.

Brooke: I love how you put that, Roberta – you grow your own. Being at the end of the highway necessitates growing your own.  And actually, it seems like this positions you to be thinking more appreciatively about people and what they might offer. In the city, if no one from within applies to a role with the necessary qualifications, we simply look to outside candidates. This suggests we might have a more transactional, and perhaps deficit-based, approach to hiring and developing staff. You, by contrast, must intentionally notice, name, and nurture peoples’ strengths. Can you say more about that?

Roberta: Okay, the kindergarten EAs have a hugely important role in the district. It’s about coming back to those teams and letting them know how important it is. Another important team is the IFRW Indigenous Family Resource Workers team. It is not just about providing that role and hoping everything goes well, it’s about doing visits and letting them know how important they are, checking in on them individually, you know, not checked on but checked in. This work is continuous. Lori and I share with them that they have made a huge difference for families they are working with. They need to know that. In our Indigenous Education Dept team, seven of them are enrolled in NITEP to become teachers.  Which is something to be celebrated!! This program provides a great opportunity for First Nations staff who are unable to move to another city to do post-secondary.  This shouldn’t be seen as privileged special treatment. Sometimes we get questioned about the program and why it is specifically for Indigenous people. Again, we have work to do.

Brooke: WOW! That’s huge!

Roberta: Yes! It’s huge. I have this one guy who was working for an industry, running machinery, making pretty good money. And I knew he had a great story with so much to offer our students and staff. He is resilient and athletic and kids like him, so I recruited him. I told him I see him as a teacher. I recruited him into the district, even though the pay will be less, the fulfillment will be so much greater. I also told him, you know, “I see you as an effective school counsellor – you can get your master’s for counselling.” We all needed that encouragement from others who noticed something in us. Sometimes it’s a kick in the butt, you know. I regularly ask the teachers I work with, “Hey, have you thought about this master’s? I think it’s a great master’s for you.” Or “have you thought about vice-principal? I see you as vice-principal.” Sometimes they look at me like a deer in headlights, but ya – sometimes it’s just the start, which will lead to more opportunities.

Brooke: Wow – that’s powerful work, Roberta.

Roberta: It is; it’s a lot of time and work. I mean, Lori Burger for example, Lori was new to our community and always had it in her as a special, talented educator. But when I approached her to join our team as a helping teacher, I made sure to inform the community, saying, “Do you know Lori Burger?! Have you seen her teach? She is something else. I think she’d be a great vice-principal.” She became a vice-principal of a school and vice-principal of Indigenous Education, which led to half-time Director of Instruction. Lori works hard at also doing the work to provide leadership space and mentoring for others. So we all need to build our teams together.

I had great leaders as mentors in my career, and still do. It’s my responsibility to uplift others.

Brooke: It sounds like you have such good energy flowing from you.

Roberta: Honestly it might come from my basketball days, that might be where it stems from. Working hard with grit and passion.

Brooke: Well then you must have been a very team-oriented player!

Roberta: It’s so much about the team and not the individual. You have to be a team player, and you have to walk the talk. Allow others to shine and score!